The Chiefs are in pretty rough shape in the present. We just had a 4-12 season, are going to have 20 rookies on our roster, and few fans have much realistic hope for this year. Even the optimistic admit that the playoffs are “a couple years away”. So how did we get here? Many people blame Herm Edwards. Others blame Carl Peterson. Some blame Carl and Herm. Those in power like to divert the blame to Dick Vermeil. The coach who is now three off-seasons and drafts removed from this team. The most surprising thing is that there are many fans that actually buy into this company line. Unless Dick is sneaking around the clubhouse whacking players in the knees with lead pipes, I just don’t buy it.
Vermeil handed Herm a 10-6 team with a top offense and an already improved defense (29th to 16th in points allowed from 2004 to 2005). Not a bad situation for a new head coach to walk into. Usually it’s much worse. So to the first company line, which goes something like this:
“Vermeil left us with an old team and had poor drafts.”
Well, as I argued in a previous commentary (“They Say it’s Vermeil’s Fault”), Vermeil’s drafts and draft-trades left the team no worse than the five drafts before Vermeil (1996-2000), yet somehow Vermeil was able to build a very strong team within one year. So that leaves us with the “old” team Vermeil left behind. This must have been a real geriatric ward around here at the end of 2005. In fact, here’s the average age of the 2005 starting lineup on January 1st, 2006:
28.8 years
By the logic “the company” tells us, this must be an exceptionally old age for a team. Judging by Vermeil’s success, he must have inherited a much younger team, right? Venture to guess how old the 2000 Chiefs starting lineup was on January 1st, 2001? That’s right, it’s:
28.5 years
Wait a minute, that’s less than four months difference? So Vermeil inherited just as good/bad drafts as Herm AND inherited just as old of a team, yet he helped turn the team in the positive and competitive direction in just one year?
Does that mean we’re being lied to? In a sense, yes. In reality, it’s just people covering their butts, just as anyone would do. Many mistakes were made by the CURRENT administration and blame needs to be diverted to save jobs. I imagine the continued fan support for Herm comes mostly from optimism for what we’re stuck with, which is something I can understand. But Herm has proved to have few NFL head coach qualities, while proving to be deficient in many areas (e.g. game management, game planning, adaptability, etc). He seems to believe that most things are out of his control, walking the middle of the road while waiting for good things to happen, opposed to proactively MAKING them happen. This brings us to the second company line/excuse:
“Bad seasons/teams happen to every team eventually.”
This sentiment reverberated through the Chiefs community following the 2007 season, with similar statements made by management, their lackeys at kcchiefs.com, and the soft-hitting journalists at The Star. Yes, it’s true, every team goes through a lull given enough time. But it’s not out of their control, as if handed down by God or luck, as they’d leave you to believe. No, it’s because given enough time, any team will make enough serious mistakes that lead to a poor performance. For example, some teams make the mistake of hiring a bad head coach who in turn makes a series of bad decisions and can’t mange a game or team (hint, hint). In the past, other teams have been dismantled because of salary cap mismanagement and bad contracts. Other teams hold on to past glory too long and do nothing while the team falls apart around them (hint, hint).
This is not Vermeil’s fault. If it were, we should consider taking Super Bowl rings away from Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, and Tony Dungy and give them to Pete Carroll, Jim Fassel, and Jim Mora, respectively. Perhaps those teams should even fire their current coaches and bring back the “true” architects. Ridiculous. All great coaches make it their team the day they take the job and start building from day one. If Herm can’t do that and would rather walk in the middle of the road, then just chalk it up as another item on the laundry list of his bad head coaching attributes.
It’s the lack of accountability from the current administration that is, perhaps, the least palatable of all this mess. At least Vermeil always tried (not always successfully) to fix the problems his team had. Herm just watched the problems grow, hoped they fixed themselves, and denied responsibility.
But it’s been a long offseason, which always breeds renewed optimism. We all hope this gamble of mortgaging the present for the future actually pays off (even though dumping 26/27 year olds seems extreme and hypocritical to me). I look forward to this year and have one simple expectation: improvement, including the coaching staff.
The Chiefs have gambled the future for the present for 30+ years and it got them nowhere so I’m welcome to change.
Comment by Tim — July 10, 2008 @ 11:44 pm
Vermiel got a lot of defensive players with that was terrible. Even through the draft. Take a look. Vonnie Holiday, Eddie Freeman, Junior Savii, Sammie Knight, Kendrell Bell, and let us not forget about Ryan Sims. He did make some good Offensive selections only through free agency. Trent Green, Willie Roaf, Eddie Kennison, Johnnie Morton were all good defensive free agents. His success came from offense and not a well balanced team. He often outscored his opponents in a shootout. But just like Herm he had 0 playoff wins in his time with the Chiefs. Take a look at the top ten offensive teams from last year. New England, Green Bay, Dallas, New Orleans, Indy, Phily, Jax, Cleveland, Seattle, and Cincy. Only four of those teams were in the top ten in defense. Indy, New England, Dallas, and Indy. Now look at the New York “Football’ Giants. They were ranked 7th in Defense and 16th (middle of the pack) in offense. Better yet, they were ranked 4th in rushing (which is what Herm was trying to do but was put to a stop with LJ being hurt and a horrible offensive line) and 21st in Pass (one slot behind the Chiefs 20th). As we all know Vermiel filled the seats with his offense but it was a disappointment in the playoffs with 0 punts against the Colts. So the formula is correct for Herm and the Chiefs. We just need to support him. I still remember all the “Fire Tom Coughlin” chants in New York. But now I’m sure they all jumped back on the bandwagon when they made it to the SuperBowl. So I say to all the Chief’s fans out there “Get on board or jump off the ship!!!!!!”
Comment by JT — July 12, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
Trent Green, Willie Roaf, Eddie Kennison, Johnnie Morton were all good offensive free agents.
Comment by JT — July 12, 2008 @ 8:16 pm
In vermeil’s only playoff game we couldn’t even make the other team punt. Tell me that the offense that herm inherited wasn’t old. Herm had both hall of fame linemen retire, he kept Trent and Priest until they couldnt make it through an entire season without getting hurt. You talk about the pre-vermeil drafts not being good, the only reason vermeil had a decent team was because they spent all their money in free agency. That got us 0 playoff wins and none of them are still around. i can’t wait to start winning so that you have nothing to complain about.
Comment by Anthony Crane — July 13, 2008 @ 12:32 am
I can’t wait for the Chiefs to start winning either. Any time Herm wants to begin, he’s free to try.
Chief fans need to raise their level of expectations. The amount of support given to a man who has the longest non-strike losing streak in Chiefs history is amazing to me.
The whole point of this article is get off Vermeil’s back. To quote Herm, “Get over it,” DV’s not on the team anymore.
Some of us have a little loyalty & we’re tired of seeing good people get trashed to cover up for Herm’s incompetency.
You want us to stop complaining & get on board, then quit blaming DV, quit making excuses for failure & just get it done already.
Comment by JD — July 14, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Of course the offense Herm inherited was old, but the one Vermeil inherited was equally old, which was my point. Vermeil lost Grunhard and Szott before his first snap as head coach. At least Herm had the retirements of Roaf and Shields spread out over 2 seasons. Herm did nothing but watch his offensive line crumble for 2 years before doing anything. At least Vermeil made the moves necessary to address his problem right away. He rebuilt the offensive line within 12 months and it quickly became one of the best in the league.
Vermeil did not “have a decent team because they spent all their money in free agency”. What high priced free agents are you talking about? Kendrell Bell? That sure didn’t make it a good team. Priest Holmes was a very low money signing. Roaf, Trent, Surtain, Welbourne were all trades, not free agent signings. Kennison was a steal money wise. Knight was relatively cheap. Allen, LJ, and DJ were all draft picks. What big free agents are you talking about?
Anyway, the point is that the current team is not Vermeil’s fault, and Herm and his fans need to start putting blame for the present where it belongs, regardless of your hopes for the future. I’m not here to argue Vermeil was the greatest coach, but I do argue he did far more than Herm in the first 2 years with just as little to start with.
I just happen to think winning takes more than just drafting and hoping. In fact, i can’t think of a single NFL team that doesn’t do at least those two things. If it works out, great, but we need to be competitive on all fronts, including coaching, development, game planning, game management, play calling, free agency, trading, re-signings, etc.
Comment by VLTC — July 14, 2008 @ 10:19 am
Dick Vermeil was not to blame for any of Herm Edward’s problems. Edwards took a top of the line offense, turned it into a mediocre offense, backed into the playoffs on Vermeil’s shirt tails and then had the audacity to blame Vermeil for his problems. Well, it’s Herm’s team now…………goofball philosophy and all. We have seen what concentrating on one side of the ball will accomplish. Nothing. Vermeil’s offenses were great, no defense. Herm may eventually field a decent defense, and will be hamstrung by the lack of an offense.
Comment by g.l. — July 14, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
Vermiels main problem. He built a winning offense and forgot that you need a defense. He neglected that side of the ball, and we won zip. That is my biggest grip. We should have put a defense on the field that could stop somebody. That whole 13-3 season i was sitting watching every game wondering when it was gona catch up to us. It did against Indy!!!! what a waste of offensive talent.
Comment by Michael Raite — July 15, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
I think you guys are missing the point of where the real blame needs to put! Unfortunately, it starts at the top! Long ago, Lamar Hunt hired a guy by the name of Jack Stedman who was allowed to run the team for far to long after his prime, and long after his time. Then, he brought in Carl Peterson, who had a great run in the 1980′s with Marty Schottenheimer but never won the big one…and he is still hanging around! Now he had a great draft this year, but me personally, I don’t think Herm Edwards is in the same league as Marty Schottenhemier…maybe I am wrong, but he sure didn’t show me anything in New York!
Comment by Mike N — July 16, 2008 @ 12:02 am
Well, if you want to get down to brass tacks, I don’t think Herm Edwards should even be a head coach. Perhaps a positions coach, or (big stretch) defensive coordinator, but head coach? Nah! Herm has risen to the level of his own incompetence and then some. It is hard to imagine him even being a good defensive coordinator. Too many folks (fans) get their ideas/thoughts/opinions directly from Carl Peterson’s desk. If you check out some of the blogs, there are numerous people who sound as if they just came from a pep talk with Herm and Carl. There would be nothing wrong with that if any of the things they were espousing were true, but they are not. Herm was a poor coach in New York, he is a poor coach in K.C., and he shows no signs of becoming anything other than a poor coach.
Comment by g.l. — July 16, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Get off of Herm’s back. Stop giving him the high hat. In short, stop hatin.’ “You see me, Hi Hater!!” Just like the song by Maino.
The next 3 years will be our (Chiefs Fans) time to judge Herm on his and the teams perfomance. Everything beforehand has been a dress rehearsal for what is to come. Changes have been made. I repeat Changes have been made. Dick Vermeil’s team is long gone, and thank God Greg Wesley is gone. Many of you have made some good points, and if I may add, the Front Office or Carl Peterson has made some bad decisions, however they have recognized it and they are moving forward. Be a Chiefs Fan, PLEASE, and not a Chiefs Critic!!
Comment by Argin — July 20, 2008 @ 2:36 pm
I think the chiefs will be good this year beacuse they are going to have good players on both sides of the ball this year and the defence will be the best line the league and so will their offence and the will beat the chargers broncos and the riaders all the time beacuse the chiefs will rule the AFC West this year.
Comment by Trevor Chase — July 21, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
Yeah, I agree with some of the comments in here. I hate how some people, especially JD, are all over Herm. Somtimes it’s almost embarrassing to be a Chiefs fan because some of them are just out of control. Yeah, let’s jump all over Herm after 2 season here! FIRE HERM! It’s his fault that he was brought here to lead a team that should be in the NFL Nursing Home League! Let’s take a look at his two seasons:
2006: Inherited the oldest team in the NFL, even AFTER Willie Roaf retired, but still managed to get them to the playoffs. (Granted, there was luck involved, but they still got there)
2007: The oldest team in the NFL that Herm inherited just got a year older, even AFTER Will Shields retired. The team doesn’t have a real answer at QB, and LJ missed the rest of the season after the Green Bay game.
Basically, to sum that up, you can’t blame this mess on Herm. He inherited an incredibly old team…Vince Lombardi couldn’t do any better with this team. On the bright side, look at how Herm has drafted. He brought in Tamba Hali, who led the Chiefs in sacks his rookie year, and could be even better now that he’s moving over to right DE. Jarrod Page turned out to be a good pick for a 7th rounder. This year, everybody knows how the Chiefs drafted. Granted, we haven’t seen them perform on the field yet, but this is definitely a step in the right direction. Let’s not forget that Herm led the Jets to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years he was there, and WON a playoff game…something the Chiefs haven’t done in years.
I just get tired of people jumping all over Herm, when in reality, it is all King Carl’s fault. Carl let this team get really old, and did nothing to change his philosophy of trying to build a winning team until this past offseason. FINALLY, he has realized that it’s time to go young and build through the draft. This year, yeah, we might be able to jump on Herm a LITTLE BIT, but I’ll still hold back on my criticism until the 2009 season. This is the year for our rookies to learn what it takes in the NFL. I can’t wait to see how much they develop. After this years draft (I realize that they have yet to play one game), and judging by the talent that we drafted, it seems to me that we’ve set ourselves up nicely in about 2 years from now.
Comment by B-Rizzle — July 22, 2008 @ 12:05 am
At some point, Herm will prove to you all beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a totally ineffectual coach. Some of us have merely come to the logical conclusion that this is the case prior to it becoming as plain as the nose on your face. Hate has nothing to do with it. Love of the game is what it has to do with. How can anyone respect someone who says things like,
“You play to win the game…….,hello?”
“That’s a lot of points. That’s not real football, that’s arena football.”
Get real, the man is a joke.
Comment by g.l. — July 22, 2008 @ 11:59 am
I’d take Vermeil back over Herm any day.
Comment by MYERS — July 23, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
How many Superbowls did Vermeil win??????? love the guy, but nothing happened with an old team… Goodness, what the heck! you guys think that building a Superbowl team is like ordering fries at a McDonalds!!!! be patient! stop your crying!! the team is heading in the right direction… oh wait, maybe you all forgot that our last S.B was in 1969…
Give Herm a chance… if you want a fast food team, go for the stinking Raiders…
Comment by Hubert — July 24, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
Dick Vermeil coached both the Philadelphia Eagles and the St. Louis Rams to the Super Bowl. He split, losing the first, winning the second. So I believe that is two more Super Bowls than the man who doesn’t even watch the Super Bowl. What is all this fries talk? And as far as being patient, you could wait until hell freezes over and Herm Edwards STILL won’t know anything about offense.
Comment by g.l. — July 25, 2008 @ 8:21 am
Hubert,
Your reaction is exactly what this article is about. Fans who want to support Herm are still immediately jumping all over Vermeil even though he’s 3 offseasons away from this team. This is Herms team, forget about Vermeil. Herm’s team went 4-12. Now we’ll see what they do this year.
I understand all the high hopes (mine are as well), but what is Herm doing that is special or really making this team competitive? All everyone says is that we’ve got young players and “strong” drafts. Every NFL team drafts. Every NFL team likes their draft picks. What has Herm done so far (with Chiefs or Jets, which equals 7 seasons i think) that is anything more than average, at best? We already know several things he’s well below average at (game and clock management, play calling, in game adaptation, etc).
It’s too early to know how good Herm’s drafts with the Chiefs were, good or bad. Who has played well above their draft position expectations so far? Just Page. Anybody else? Maybe Bowe will. But the rest either played to their draft expectations (e.g. Hali), well below them (e.g. Turk), didn’t even make the team (e.g. Medlock, Maxey), or are still unknown (e.g. Croyle).
Comment by VLTC — July 25, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Apparently I am the only one who was embarrassed by the no-1st-downs-till-the-3rd-quarter 8 point performance against the Colts in the playoffs. I should’ve just been happy the great Herm Edwards willed that geriatric squad to 9 wins & a playoff appearance (after 47 other teams lost in week 16).
In the Colts game, after Trent Green got his head bashed in for the 100th time, NFL Films caught Herm saying confidently smug, “We can’t block”, like he was Sherlock Holmes cracking a case. But did he make drafting an O-lineman a priority that year? No. After Roaf retired, did Herm make drafting an O-lineman a priority then? No.
Herm didn’t want to address the kicker situation this year because he did’t want to be bothered with kicking competions. How many games did we lose because of the kicker? But that’s ok, at least Herm wasn’t bothered.
I could go on with more examples but I won’t. I’ve seen enough in these two years to know that he is not a good coach. But at least he’s dishonest & a scape-goater, I will give him that. Why would you want to waste 3 more years?
Don’t you get tired of always having to make excuses for Herm? This is his SECOND 4-12 season in three years, raise your expectations! The goal of the NFL is win the Super Bowl, not just draft a young team.
NFL history is littered with young drafted teams that didn’t do crap. If my 61 year old mom could block, I would tell her to suit up, because it doesn’t matter how young or old the team is, what matters is winning a Super Bowl. If Herm was capable of that, the Jets would’ve never let him go. Even though, after all, he did win a playoff game.
Comment by JD — July 25, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
JD you’re blind to the facts that this is Herm’s first team with coaches and players he’s picked himself from what was available. This is his time to have no excuse and for us Chiefs fans to have no excuse. This team will be good because of everything involved in what makes a great organization. Honestly if you were giving examples of coaches who could walk into one of the oldest non-playoff winning teams in the league then make it to the playoffs I might give your opinion some weight. The real fact is we have a new team this year and like it or not it will be different, younger, faster, and not as experienced at losing as last year’s team. Show up or give up! Regardless of what happens at New England I better see 80,000 of the best fans on Sept. 7th. After that day I will accept any criticism from any fan, but until we get a chance to actually see what we got I won’t judge and neither should any other fan.
Comment by Jake T. — July 28, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
Yeah, Chiefs fans, ESPECIALLY JD are embarrassing themselves. Let’s jump all over Herm for inheriting an old team. That’s just ridiculous. Yeah, I’ll give you the fact that this team isn’t as exciting as Vermeil’s…so what??? Who cares. He has this team going in the right direction. The Chiefs won’t have to score 40 points or more just to win under his system. He took the Jets to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years. The Jets team that went 4-12 in 2005 went through a billion quarterbacks but was still a VERY competitive team. They were in just about every game, even with all of the injuries to the O-line, rb’s, and QB’s. Jumping all over Herm after TWO SEASONS is just absurd. Get over yourselves. You think Vince Lombardi would take the Chiefs team of last year to the playoffs? Bill Parcells? Give me a break. It takes time to go from an old team to a team with young talent. Finally, Herm has his pieces in place and is now building towards the future. I swear, some Chiefs fans are just complete morons. Sorry, but the Chiefs can’t be good EVERY SINGLE YEAR, especially when the team is older than Abe Vigoda. Remember Marty Schottenheimer? The offense we had when he was our coach was boring as hell…but you know what? We got to the playoffs and at least had a chance to win. I sure as hell hope that Herm makes you all look very ignorant some day.
Comment by JD is a toolbox — July 28, 2008 @ 8:47 pm
We will see. Unless Chan Gailey’s offense can save Herm’s rear end over the next couple of years, it will be obvious where the problem lies.
Comment by g.l. — July 29, 2008 @ 10:29 am
Yes, two seasons isn’t enough to fully judge a coach. But Herm has 7 years as an NFL head coach. Based on those 7 years, what is Herm actually good (ie better than average) at? Anything?
Everyone loves the hope that a young team breeds. Everyone has high hopes for the draft picks your team makes. But every team does that. Every one. What does Herm bring to the table? I’ve posted many times the things i think Herm is below average at. I’m still waiting to hear what he’s above average at. And before you say drafting and player development, go look at the Jets drafts under the 5 years he was there. Nothing special there at all.
Comment by VLTC — July 29, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Post 21!!!! nice!!! LOL
Comment by Hubert — July 29, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
Anyone can support a team that is winning – it takes no courage. But to stand behind a team to defend a team when it is down and really needs you, that takes a lot of courage. — Bart Starr
Ask the true NY Giants fans.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 9, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
Wow, post number 25 is way off base. It is not a matter of supporting the team, it is the fact that the team currently has the worst head coach in the NFL. What takes courage is to stand up and say the “emperor has no clothes”. Both JD and myself have been lambasted for merely stating the obvious. The obvious being that Herm Edwards is the worst coach in the NFL, bar none. Herm Edwards knows absolutely nothing about offense and probably never will. As long as the team has to battle other teams and the head coach’s idiot philosophy, they stand little chance of fielding a winning team. Even so, I am behind the TEAM 100%. As for Mr. Edwards, the sooner his departure day arrives, the better.
Comment by g.l. — August 11, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
Worse head coach? How could you say that when the team is rebuilding. What I mean by “Ask the TRUE NY Giants fans” is they supported him when Tiki Barbar was bashing Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning and when the Bangwagon fans were screaming fire Tom Coughlin at the end of 2006 season. Now all those fans who were bashing those guys are screaming “GIANTS RULE” forever.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 12, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
BTW, I like how you said that he has no idea about offense. POST #2. I wrote that too. I still remember when we had Kimble Anders and Donnell Bennett as our backs with. I think it was 1998 or 1999. If it wasnt for the late addition of Bam Morris our offense would have put up a whopping 12ppg…..Lets see, who was our coach then….Oh yeah, Marty Schottenheimer. I can somewhat understand what you are saying that Herm does not know offense but neither does Dungy, but when he went to Indy he finally scored his first playoffs touchdown. He kept Solari because he thought he could generate the offense that Vermeil had but we see how that turned out. Now he has Gailey which fits his scheme a lot more and so far Im not disappointed in what the offense is doing.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 12, 2008 @ 9:14 pm
J-Rock…I totally agree with you. These Herm bashers are way off base. They worship Vermeil because the team was exciting to watch…even though we never really won ANYTHING. We were lucky to be 13-3 in 2003…thanks to Dante Hall. Those 90′s teams were in the playoffs just about every year with just an average offense…but still…PLAYOFFS. Meanwhile, we get a coach who is similar to Marty, as far as being defensive minded, and he took the Jets to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and WON A PLAYOFF GAME, but everybody complains about him for being the head coach of the oldest team in football. Yep, it’s official, and I’ll say it again: JD is a toolbox, and appearntly g.l. is just another tool in the box.
Comment by g.l. is the hammer in JD's toolbox — August 13, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Thanks for the compliment from g.l.ithiJD’stoolbox! We will see who is correct. J-Rock, I understand what you are saying.So far, I have nothing at all against Chan Gailey’s offense, and actually I am pleasantly surprised. I still think the success of the team rides on whether or not Herm meddles in the offense and screws things up. If he leaves Chan alone, we will be better off.
Comment by g.l. — August 14, 2008 @ 8:33 am
For the last time:
1) There is no worship of Vermeil here, it’s about stopping the inappropriate blame he is receiving
2) Herm never won more than 10 games in a season. I don’t care how many times his teams accidentally got to the playoffs. His teams have never really earned it, due in large part to his poor stewardship
Lastly, lumping Herm and Marty together has no basis other than saying they are both defensively minded. I might as well lump Herm and the devil together because they both love fig newtons.
Comment by VLTC — August 14, 2008 @ 10:22 am
My bad VLTC….Responding to the #2) statement you put up there. I guess going 13-3 and getting fans hopes up only to lose the first game you play is more important than winning 10 games in a season and at least winning a couple of games in the playoffs. If my memory serves me correct, didn’t the New York “Football” Giants win 10 games last season. If my memory serves me correct, didnt these same New York “Football” Giants beat the 13-3 Dallas Cowboys, 13-3 Green Bay Packers, and 18-0 New England Patriots. Long story short is, Just because you win a lot of games in the regular season doesnt mean you will win the Super Bowl or the team is guarenteed to do well in the playoffs. Marty took us 13-3 twice and Vermiel once but during those three playoff appearance we were 0-3 with loses against Jim Harbaugh’s Colts (9-7 record), John Elway’s Denver Broncos (12-4 record), and Peyton Manning’s Colts (12-4).
Now let’s look at Herm’s 10 wins or less seasons that made it to the playoffs.
2001 10-6 (first year) lost in first round (Oakland Raiders 12-4) 0-1
2002 9-7 win against Indy 41-0 lost against Oakland 10-30. 1-1
2005 10-6 First round win against Chargers 20-17 and lost against Pitt 17-20. 1-1
Edwards playoffs record with the Jets 2-3
BTW, 2001 was Vermiel’s first year as head coach for the Chiefs and the same year was the first year for Herm Edwards. Funny how Edwards had a better playoff’s record than Vermeil but everyone dislike the guy and praised Vermeil.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 16, 2008 @ 10:48 am
I still pissed at Vermeil for talking the Chiefs out of resigning Donnie Edwards and depending on Mike Maslowski to fill those shoes.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 16, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
It was said to be Greg Robinson that talked the Chiefs brass out of re-signing Edwards, not Vermeil. Although you could argue that Vermeil/Peterson should have over-ruled.
I don’t know about you, but I watched up to half of the Jets games while Herm was there (I was living in New England at the time). Some of them i even saw in person (including when the Chiefs stomped ‘em in NJ). All I ever saw was a coach whose decision making (or lack there of) and game planning held the team back. He doesn’t bring anything worthy to the table, in my humble opinion. At least not at an NFL head coaching level. I’ve closely witnessed 7 years of Herm. That’s enough for me. I find it unlikely that he will suddenly change or improve much.
Sure, you can point to successful 10-6 or 9-7 teams. But for every one of those, i can point you to a team with the same record that didn’t even earn a playoff spot… like the 2005 Chiefs.
Go Chiefs (in spite of Herm’s deficiencies)!
Comment by VLTC — August 18, 2008 @ 11:10 am
Also, wins do matter since there are things called “byes”. In each of the 13-3 seasons you mention we made it to the divisional playoffs, which is just as far as Herm made it when he managed to win a wild card playoff game.
But back to my other point, wins matter because they earn/guarantee a playoff spot. I don’t believe any 11+ win team has missed the playoffs. However, you move any of Herms four 9-7 or 10-6 “playoff” teams to 2003 or 2005, and they wouldn’t have even made it. Or in some cases, if the schedule would have been a little different, they might not have had the tie breakers that let the 9-7 teams squeak into the playoffs.
Comment by VLTC — August 18, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
You missed the whole point of a 13-3 season. The fans hopes were up and most of us were talking at least the AFC championship game and possibly Super Bowl. So I will take a 10-6 or 9-7 and make in through wild card just to see the Chiefs play an extra game if its a win. I say there should not be a first round bye because most teams get rusty on that two week layoff. All everyone remembers from the 13-3 season in 2003 is that the Chiefs coouldn’t make the Colts PUNT. Talk about let down. Honestly I would rather have a defensive coach who wins by 3 than an offensive minded coach who cant stop anyone. I must admit that Vermeil did get us back into the playoffs with his pass happy offense but Im just still upset of how it ended…….
This statement by VLTC bothers me…..(However, you move any of Herms four 9-7 or 10-6 “playoff†teams to 2003 or 2005, and they wouldn’t have even made it.)
That seems to happen every year. Look at how Cleveland missed the playoffs and Giants made it. In 2006 Phily (10-6), Dallas (9-7), Giants (8-8). In 2005 Patriots won the Division with 10 wins while Chiefs came in second in theirs division and didnt make it. In 2004 Minnesota and the Rams both had an 8-8 season and made it to the playoffs. In 2003 Baltimore won their division with 10-6 while Miami missed it with a 10-6 record and let us not forget about 2002. OMG the whole AFC East were kicking each others @$$ and three teams went 9-7 while the fourth went 8-8, WOW! …..the list goes on and on. If you take any of those scenerios and changed the years where another team had a better season then neither one would have made the playoffs.
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 18, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
I’m not sure i see any disagreement in your last point. I wasn’t trying to say Herm’s playoff teams were unique in squeaking into the playoffs, just merely that they *ALL* did squeak and were marginal playoff berths at best.
I agree, i’d rather have a defensive powerhouse than an offensive one, if we could only have one or the other.
I just don’t see any evidence or credentials to say that Herm is the man to make that happen.
Comment by VLTC — August 18, 2008 @ 7:31 pm
Having only a defensive or offensive powerhouse does not work. We have seen that in both Marty’s and Vermeil’s Chiefs teams. I am sick to death of the old line about “offense sells tickets and defense wins games.” A more realistic line is “defense wins games on a week to week basis, but offense wins BIG games.” If it were up to me I would rather have a middle of the pack defense, and a powerhouse offense, than vice-versa.
Comment by g.l. — August 19, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
Having only a defensive or offensive powerhouse does not work. We have seen that in both Marty’s and Vermeil’s Chiefs teams. I am sick to death of the old line about “offense sells tickets and defense wins games.†A more realistic line is “defense wins games on a week to week basis, but offense wins BIG games.†If it were up to me I would rather have a middle of the pack defense, and a powerhouse offense, than vice-versa.
Comment by g.l. — August 19, 2008 @ 12:00 pm……
The Giants had a top line defense and a middle of the pack offense. Ravens had a top of the line defense and a bottom line offense when they won it. But here is your middle of line defense and top of the line offense……click here –> http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2005.htm?redir
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 19, 2008 @ 8:02 pm
Hey GI. You may like this link better……LOL –> http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2003.htm?redir
Comment by J-Rock in TX — August 19, 2008 @ 8:04 pm
Very funny.
Comment by g.l. — August 20, 2008 @ 8:18 am
Herm Edwards is the reason that China got away with cheating in gymnastics.
Comment by JD is a toolbox — August 22, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
The problem with the Chiefs starts at the top.The Hunts are not committed to going to the SB,they just want to make more money by selling out their stadium and CP will not invest in young superstars,but will spend good money on old players like Joe Montana,Warren Moon,Steve Bono etc.
They also get coaches that are losers except DV and the great Hank Stram.If you check the history of the Chiefs these are the only two coaches that had SB exp. Marv Levy went 4 times with Buff. after the Chiefs got rid of him.
If the Chiefs wanted to win and go to the SB they should have promoted Al Saunders to head coach and got rid of Gunther and made Emmitt Thomas or Ray Rhodes def. cor,,but these guys are not serious about winning,because they don’t fully understand the game,bu they do know how to make money.
Comment by Tony Gordon — September 11, 2008 @ 11:33 pm